NEW FROM CNN AUDIO’S “THE AXE FILES” PODCAST: Monica Lewinsky joins David Axelrod and talks about her upbringing and her parents' tumultuous divorce, her struggles with mental health and suicidal thoughts following her affair with former President Bill Clinton, the dangers of social media, and how she took back control of her own story, most recently as a producer on “Impeachment: American Crime Story.”
Listen to the full episode here, and find key news excerpts and the full transcript below.
Key excerpts in the episode:
On whether Clinton’s relationship with a young intern would be treated/viewed the same way now:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:25:08] You know, I I would hope not. I'm not 100 percent sure that that we're quite as far from that, if it were a handsome young Democratic president who was, quote unquote, good to women. I, I don't know. But I would hope so.
On having suicidal thoughts during the investigation into her affair with Clinton:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:29:31] I just couldn't see a way out. And I thought that maybe that was the solution. And had even asked, you know, which is, this is also an interesting point of just I had asked the OIC lawyers about, well what happens, what happens if I die? You know, and as.
David Axelrod: [00:29:53] Oh, my goodness.
Monica Lewinsky: [00:29:54] Yeah. As more of an adult now, I think back: how was there not a protocol, like that's a point where you're supposed to bring a psychologist in or, you know, something? How is that not a breaking point?
Monica Lewinsky: [00:30:49] And throughout the investigation, there were a number of points where. I was lucky my you know, I eventually got a therapist, I didn't have a therapist at the time, and so I got a forensic psychiatrist a couple of weeks into the investigation effort after it had become public. And it was just. I think a lot of people who have ever had suicidal ideations find themselves in a moment where it's just it's a moment of grace, like, you know, two roads diverged in the woods. And the forensic psychiatrist picked up the phone. And so I was, you know, pretty, pretty lucky. […] We often hear stories where you might, somebody might talk about having a moment of not wanting to be here anymore, and they make it through. But you don't realize that you can have many moments like that in your life, you know, and that the only thing that is better about it is that each time you make it through it, it gets a little easier to to to try to find the lifeboat of 'I've gotten through this before. I can do it again.'
On how she feels about Clinton now:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:34:19] How I feel now is just very distant […] And at this point, it's really just about, these are the choices he's made, you know. He'll come to the end of his life one day like we all do, and he'll have to kind of reconcile. Reconcile those choices, reconcile if he wished he had, you know, cleaned up those messes.
On her anti-bullying work and the dangers of social media:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:46:52] Well, you know, I mean, the work I've done the last several years, I've really advocated for trying to bring more empathy and compassion to the Internet, I think. And and this kind of idea of click with compassion and understanding our clicks have consequences.
Monica Lewinsky: [00:48:53] We also have to point out we as, you know, consumers, did you walk away from Twitter?… I'm not on Facebook very much any more because of, you know, because of those reasons. But I, I haven't walked away from social media to make a sort of cultural, political, moral point, I'm still there, and so I think that is, you know, and it's the same thing, you know, it's that idea of really, in a way, what we saw in '98 too of people saying enough of this, enough of this scandal. But they kept buying it. They kept clicking on it. And so that, you know, there is a hundred percent, I think that there are people who need to be held more responsible.
On retaking control of her narrative:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:52:48] My narrative was stolen and then I lost it by trying to recede, trying to run away from everything that had happened for many years. And part of the work I had to do was accepting that I was going to have to integrate my past. And I also think, too, that it's this this story has stayed in the cultural zeitgeist for over 20 years. […] had this story somehow miraculously been erased from history and I still lived with the experiences, I would not be out here talking about them. You know, but the truth is, is that the Clintons stayed in the spotlight, in the political spotlight for many, many years, which was part of that part of you know sort of kept the story alive in different ways. And I think that this is just we're also now living in different social times. This story is about real people, and I'm involved in it, but it's also about something bigger. It reflects something bigger in our society. And so as our society changes, there are different ways that this story feels relevant.
On “Impeachment: American Crime Story:”
Monica Lewinsky: [00:56:19] Is that at the heart of the American Crime Story anthology, it is about what crimes we, the American people commit. What do we, you know, where do we play a part in these stories that we come and look at? You know, we gawk like we see a car accident. And so that's, you know, I think there's -- I don't know that there are any heroes in what happened in 1998. You know, I think that's part of what it is. And what I hope what I hope people will take away is, is really a few things. One is I hope it impacts people emotionally so that this doesn't happen to another young person again […] And then the other is, you know, the avenue that was interesting to me about getting involved with this project was really telling the story through the three women who were on the margins of power. […] And so I hope that what also settles in, and we're we're seeing this more and more in society from so many different ways, and which is that we consider the less powerful, often the woman or someone from a marginalized group. We consider their perspective. We consider their role. We consider them as being affected by what's happening. And I hope that sort of infects the culture a little bit too.
On her life now:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:59:42] I, you know, I would have liked to have had a quieter, more normal life, and so for now, I'm I'm grateful that I've got purpose and I'm grateful that I've got movement in my life. And it seems like there's kind of, I don't feel like the the political history and the people who who are part of that political history, that they've receded in some ways on the political stage, that it's just not, you know, their thumb is not on the scale of me for my future. […] I get that that may sound it may sound contradictory to some people. It’s like because look I understand it's hard to sometimes understand these bigger, bizarre scenarios that we just haven't lived in. If, especially if it's in different worlds of like, then why don't you just go be a private person and just -- I tried. It didn't work.
Key excerpts in the episode:
On whether Clinton’s relationship with a young intern would be treated/viewed the same way now:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:25:08] You know, I I would hope not. I'm not 100 percent sure that that we're quite as far from that, if it were a handsome young Democratic president who was, quote unquote, good to women. I, I don't know. But I would hope so.
On having suicidal thoughts during the investigation into her affair with Clinton:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:29:31] I just couldn't see a way out. And I thought that maybe that was the solution. And had even asked, you know, which is, this is also an interesting point of just I had asked the OIC lawyers about, well what happens, what happens if I die? You know, and as.
David Axelrod: [00:29:53] Oh, my goodness.
Monica Lewinsky: [00:29:54] Yeah. As more of an adult now, I think back: how was there not a protocol, like that's a point where you're supposed to bring a psychologist in or, you know, something? How is that not a breaking point?
Monica Lewinsky: [00:30:49] And throughout the investigation, there were a number of points where. I was lucky my you know, I eventually got a therapist, I didn't have a therapist at the time, and so I got a forensic psychiatrist a couple of weeks into the investigation effort after it had become public. And it was just. I think a lot of people who have ever had suicidal ideations find themselves in a moment where it's just it's a moment of grace, like, you know, two roads diverged in the woods. And the forensic psychiatrist picked up the phone. And so I was, you know, pretty, pretty lucky. […] We often hear stories where you might, somebody might talk about having a moment of not wanting to be here anymore, and they make it through. But you don't realize that you can have many moments like that in your life, you know, and that the only thing that is better about it is that each time you make it through it, it gets a little easier to to to try to find the lifeboat of 'I've gotten through this before. I can do it again.'
On how she feels about Clinton now:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:34:19] How I feel now is just very distant […] And at this point, it's really just about, these are the choices he's made, you know. He'll come to the end of his life one day like we all do, and he'll have to kind of reconcile. Reconcile those choices, reconcile if he wished he had, you know, cleaned up those messes.
On her anti-bullying work and the dangers of social media:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:46:52] Well, you know, I mean, the work I've done the last several years, I've really advocated for trying to bring more empathy and compassion to the Internet, I think. And and this kind of idea of click with compassion and understanding our clicks have consequences.
Monica Lewinsky: [00:48:53] We also have to point out we as, you know, consumers, did you walk away from Twitter?… I'm not on Facebook very much any more because of, you know, because of those reasons. But I, I haven't walked away from social media to make a sort of cultural, political, moral point, I'm still there, and so I think that is, you know, and it's the same thing, you know, it's that idea of really, in a way, what we saw in '98 too of people saying enough of this, enough of this scandal. But they kept buying it. They kept clicking on it. And so that, you know, there is a hundred percent, I think that there are people who need to be held more responsible.
On retaking control of her narrative:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:52:48] My narrative was stolen and then I lost it by trying to recede, trying to run away from everything that had happened for many years. And part of the work I had to do was accepting that I was going to have to integrate my past. And I also think, too, that it's this this story has stayed in the cultural zeitgeist for over 20 years. […] had this story somehow miraculously been erased from history and I still lived with the experiences, I would not be out here talking about them. You know, but the truth is, is that the Clintons stayed in the spotlight, in the political spotlight for many, many years, which was part of that part of you know sort of kept the story alive in different ways. And I think that this is just we're also now living in different social times. This story is about real people, and I'm involved in it, but it's also about something bigger. It reflects something bigger in our society. And so as our society changes, there are different ways that this story feels relevant.
On “Impeachment: American Crime Story:”
Monica Lewinsky: [00:56:19] Is that at the heart of the American Crime Story anthology, it is about what crimes we, the American people commit. What do we, you know, where do we play a part in these stories that we come and look at? You know, we gawk like we see a car accident. And so that's, you know, I think there's -- I don't know that there are any heroes in what happened in 1998. You know, I think that's part of what it is. And what I hope what I hope people will take away is, is really a few things. One is I hope it impacts people emotionally so that this doesn't happen to another young person again […] And then the other is, you know, the avenue that was interesting to me about getting involved with this project was really telling the story through the three women who were on the margins of power. […] And so I hope that what also settles in, and we're we're seeing this more and more in society from so many different ways, and which is that we consider the less powerful, often the woman or someone from a marginalized group. We consider their perspective. We consider their role. We consider them as being affected by what's happening. And I hope that sort of infects the culture a little bit too.
On her life now:
Monica Lewinsky: [00:59:42] I, you know, I would have liked to have had a quieter, more normal life, and so for now, I'm I'm grateful that I've got purpose and I'm grateful that I've got movement in my life. And it seems like there's kind of, I don't feel like the the political history and the people who who are part of that political history, that they've receded in some ways on the political stage, that it's just not, you know, their thumb is not on the scale of me for my future. […] I get that that may sound it may sound contradictory to some people. It’s like because look I understand it's hard to sometimes understand these bigger, bizarre scenarios that we just haven't lived in. If, especially if it's in different worlds of like, then why don't you just go be a private person and just -- I tried. It didn't work.
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