There are 1.33 million lawyers in the United States today. And since the inauguration of Donald Trump, a majority of them have been busy either prosecuting or defending the President. Only in a Trump Administration could a podcast start and sustain itself on such legal chicanery.

A spin-off of KCRW’s Left Right & Center – which is billed as a civilized yet provocative debate about politics, policy and pop culture – All The President's Lawyers began in 2018 and has never been hungry for courtroom dramas.

Host Josh Barro and legal expert and co-host Ken White probe the legal tea leaves for inspiration of the current week’s investigations, grand juries and legal rulings.

From Stormy Daniels, Michael Cohen, the Mueller Investigation and, of course, the crown prince of legal buffoonery, Rudy Guiliani, Barro and White analyze the legal maneuvers of Trump allies or government entities like federal judges, Inspectors General and Congressional Committees..

Barro, who is also the host of KCRW's Left, Right & Center , is New York Magazine's business columnist, a founding correspondent at The Upshot, the economics and data section of The New York Times, and Business Insider's senior editor and politics editor.

Barro is not a lawyer but has great instincts for legal issues and his probing questions to legal expert White make for immersive listening and could qualify as receiving three credits for taking a class in Law.

One of Barro’s ongoing – and tongue-in-cheek – questions to White is: “Is Michael Avenatti a good lawyer?” This refrain began after the Stormy Daniels case in which Avenatti was her counsel. Not only did Avenatti lose an ill-considered defamation lawsuit against Trump but also burdened his client with a $300 thousand bill for Trump’s legal fees. Then Avenatti managed to be arrested on charges of extortion and fraud against Nike. When White rightfully criticized Avenatti’s legal skills, Avenatti lashed out in social media against White, whose defense was whimsical enough to demonstrate that he didn’t even take the attack by a crooked lawyer that seriously.

The podcast’s format is the definition of simplicity. Barro and White discuss the latest news on the numerous legal tornadoes swirling constantly around Trump. Certainly, the Mueller investigation took up many episodes but to White’s credit, he was always skeptical that the investigation would lead to significant legal challenges to Trump himself. White, who seemingly disdains Trump’s ethical messiness, does throw cold water on Trump opponents who hope in vain for some nuclear bomb of legal charges against the spray-tanned one.

For example, in a recent episode, White explained in detail how difficult it is for the government to win a tax evasion case. Instead, White explained, federal and local legal officials in New York are examining Trump and Trump family public statements about their taxes – a more fertile ground for prosecution.

In the Michael Flynn soap opera, White has repeated several times that eventually Judge Sullivan, the presiding judge, will ultimately drop the charges against Flynn as requested by the Barr – Trump cabal. White wears the veneer of legal objectively well, clearly believing that Flynn should not be exonerated but from a practical and legal perspective explaining what is – and is not – possible and probable.

White, who is an attorney at Brown White & Osborn LLP in Los Angeles, has the benefit of being on both sides of the legal fence. He was a federal prosecutor and now his practice includes both criminal defense and free speech issues. White also hosts “Make No Law,” a podcast about First Amendment history. 

All The President's Lawyers Podcast Co-Host Attorney Ken White.

For Barro, who plays the role of centrist on the Left Right & Center podcast and White, who explains the law without prejudice, the podcast is not a Trump-bashing exercise, but does question Trump’s quest to expand presidential powers far beyond the limits imposed by the Constitution..

Instead, the co-hosts explain in detail how the law works and often point out its inherent weaknesses and strengths. White is forever explaining that federal prosecutors move at a snail’s pace to build a case, often frustrating Trump opponents who hope for a legal rather than an electoral decision.

The podcast has hosted several Q&A sessions – several live before COVID – and White always marvels at the questions about using RICO – Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act – to indict Trump and his cronies. With a smirk, White patiently explains the limitations of charging someone with a RICO violation. Similarly, White has explained numerous times how conspiracy is difficult to prove because intent must be explicit not inferred.

Barro and White often explain the difference between a courtroom legal strategy with pleadings and motions and a public relations legal strategy with social media posts, inflammatory interviews on Fox News and posturing to the press. White always warns that a client’s public relations strategy, no matter how successful, should not hurt the client's actual legal strategy.

Barro and White are constantly amazed at people under indictment or the subject of an investigation shooting off their mouths in the media. White explains how damaging that can be when prosecutors use some of these free-wheeling and loose-lipped comments in court. The number one target of their disdain is former New York City Mayor Rudy Guiliani, who now seems to more like a pissed-off motorist at municipal court fighting his road rage violation rather than the former federal prosecutor he once was.

A key question for podcast’s future is: Will All The President's Lawyers continue in 2021 if Biden becomes president? The answer is rooted in the molten lava of political animus among the electorate and the elected. Sadly, it seems like no matter which party is in power, the other side will launch investigations that may be substantive but more often frivolous in nature, regardless of the moral and ethical chastity of the officials in power.

All The President's Lawyers began in 2018 to shine the light of legal knowledge on the black box of Trumpian maneuvering and has exceeded that goal, now offering a rare under the hood of the law, the elusive search for justice and the unsettling but not unexpected understanding that legal success is often determined by money and power instead of righteousness and fairness.

Check out All The President's Lawyers here.