Immaterial: When An Art Podcast Is About Real Life

 You would think that a podcast sponsored and produced by The Metropolitan Museum of Art (MOMA) would be exclusively about -- you guessed it -- art. 

But the Immaterial podcast from MOMA is so much more than that. Just the podcast's tagline -- 5,000 years of art, one material at a time -- expressed the podcast's desire to channel art as a mirror, echo chamber, and materials supplier to civilization.

MOMA's announcement of the podcast's second season went like this: "The marquee podcast of the Metropolitan Museum of Art is back for a second season, with CSU University Distinguished Professor Camille Dungy returning as host. Immaterial: 5,000 Years of Art, One Material at a Time explores how artworks and the materials they’re composed of reflect “stories of identity, humanity, nature, power, tragedy, science, and history."

The first season of Immaterial debuted in June 2022 and investigated how materials like paper, clay, and concrete reveal deep truths about the human experience and the world at large. Building upon this idea, season two’s eight episodes expand the scope to “reveal the emotional origins and transformative power of art through the lens of materials.”

Host Camille Dungy brings a fresh voice as “guide to the listener.”

In an August 2022 interview published by The Met, Benjamin Korman compared Dungy’s approach to hosting as “serving as a sort of guide to the listener.” In response, Dungy discussed her role, and how she incorporates her own experiences into the story space:

“When I get excited about things, I make personal connections to my own life, I’m reminded of something important to me. In Immaterial, I’m excited about the people we’re speaking to and the objects and materials we’re exploring. When we’re talking about the materials that we’re using to describe the world, it’s not enough to just say one thing and move on. There’s very little about the way the real world works that can be summed up in just one thought. It just felt natural to me to draw out my own connections and share them,” she said.

Korman also asked Dungy what it was like to enter the podcast medium from the perspective of a poet and writer. Dungy revealed:
"There was a lot that was very similar to poetry because of that distillation of information. There are these large chunks of information, long interviews, histories, et cetera, and I have to get all of that down to thirty-something minutes."

Dungy adds: "When I’m writing, I really want to engage with my readers. I’m not the kind of poet who’s like, ‘I don’t care about the reader. They can just figure it out.’ I think readers could figure it out… or they could go bake a cake if they don’t feel engaged. They’re not necessarily going to bother to try and figure it out."

"So it is important to me," Dungy explains, "always to have that connection with an audience and with the reader in my writing. In making the podcast, I needed to think about the audience much earlier in the process than I do when I am writing contemporary American literature."

The Met had teased that this season will not only focus on tangible materials, but also dive into speculative elements. Here’s the official preview description:

“This season we learn from Mexican artisans keeping centuries-old traditions alive; we go to ancient Mesopotamia to understand time travel; and we find a mythical tree in Belize that’s been making music for decades. From traditional materials like stone and wood, to more abstract ones like space and time, the podcast explores how these materials shape the inner lives of artworks and the human experiences they reflect.”

The first episode of season two, “Stone: Making and Breaking Legacies” asked listeners, “What happens when the unbreakable shatters?”

Throughout art museums around the world, you’ll find ancient stone statues of rulers and marble monuments immortalizing noblemen. These objects were made to survive decay and destruction, to remain intact and whole. But from the moment that stone is extracted from the earth, it is bound to become a more fragmented version of itself—chiseled, chipped, and sometimes shattered over time. In this episode, we examine the many ways that stone breaks. How can a statue’s cracks and cavities tell a more complex story of our humanity?

My favorite episodes of season two include the August 27th show about Wood: The Most Musical Tree In The World. The episode begins by asking: "How did one tree become a world-famous tonewood for guitars?"

The episode goes on to explain: "Deep in the forests of Belize, a wood importer from Florida discovered a rare tree that produced a sound unlike anything guitar virtuosos had ever heard before. But why does this material cast such a spell? And at what cost does that come?"

The August 13th show -- Trash: The Archaeology of Rubbish -- is more treasure than trash. The episode begins at the top of the Staten Island Arthur Kills Landfill and then transitions to a medieval city buried under sand in Turkmenistan.

Who knew garbage could be that fascinating? Listen to this episode. It won't be a WASTE of your time!

From traditional materials like stone and wood, to more abstract ones like space and time, this podcast explores how these materials shape the inner lives of artworks and the human experiences they reflect.

Check Out the Immaterial podcast. Listening to the host, Camille Dungy, is a pleasure. As a poet, her words have a lilting cadence that has a calming effect. The intrinsic beauty of this podcast is that you could care nothing about art, art museums, and art history, and still enjoy this show. If you've worked with your hands and used the materials discussed on the show -- concrete, wood, paper, and even trash -- you will find Immaterial a precious gem.