Podcaster Profiles: Doug Downs -- Canadian Podcaster, Producer, Marketer

 The tale of Canadian podcast producer, consultant, and podcaster Doug Downs demonstrates yet again that podcasting produces the best of the best in media. In this edition of Podcaster Profiles, we talk to Doug about his career, and his thoughts on podcasting. 

Podcaster Profiles has a simple goal: highlight, spotlight, and focus on the indie podcasters who are the heart and soul of podcasting.

Indie podcasters wear more hats than any network-supported podcaster. They are creator, writer, producer, sound engineer, I.T. troubleshooter, researcher, host, distribution pro, marketing guru, public relations professional, and, most important of all, financial backer for the podcast.

Doug Downs got into the podcasting industry through a similar pathway followed by many podcasters -- spending 15 years in radio and TV broadcasting.

Doug explains: "Then I worked hard to receive a marketing degree and moving into corporate roles that were essentially public relations and marketing."

Then Doug did what many must do -- find a job that offers financial security for himself and his family. In retrospect, Doug says: "I sold my soul and made some money for just over 23 years in my corporate life (no regrets), then got to the point in life where I needed to keep working but I could choose what I wanted to do. Broadcasting… Marketing… those happen to be the main two ingredients to podcasting when you think about it, so I started my own podcast in 2019 then with the COVID wave I started my podcast production agency."

Like many indie podcasters and general podcast good guys, Doug entered the podcasting world because of his love of the form.

"The reason I love podcasting and want to make podcasts for brands is I genuinely believe podcasts contribute to a better world. Podcasts generate deeper conversations, deeper thought, and deeper meaning. The world is better for that."

We asked Doug about his first opportunities in podcasting, and he replied:  "I’d been a public relations and marketing consultant for about six years so when I launched my podcast, Stories and Strategies for Public Relations and Marketing, it was initially to support that work. But within a year I realized I loved podcasting so much I wanted to do this for others. I asked some colleagues who were also friends and confidants if they’d thought of hosting a podcast, found a few who had been thinking that way, and launched their podcasts for them. I quickly found the two key challenges for independent podcasts are the show conception (how are you both appealing and unique?), and discoverability. My background in broadcasting and marketing meant I was a quick study for podcasts."

Doug decided to focus on independent podcasters because he felt that indie podcasts were more authentic. 

"Indie podcasters produce content, at least in part, from their passions," notes Doug. "They aren’t tied to commercial or network-driven agendas. They produce more consistently genuine, unfiltered, and personal stories which is what podcasts should be."

Doug also believes that independent podcasts are more likely to explore niche topics, unconventional viewpoints, or experimental formats that networks need to avoid until they’re proven saleable.

Moreover, Doug finds that independent podcasters tend to engage more deeply with their audiences, fostering a sense of belonging and direct interaction through social media, listener feedback, or community events

As to the high-profile podcasts, Doug observes: "I’ve tried to listen to Joe Rogan. Took him eight minutes to even introduce his topic for the episode. He’s a great podcaster and very successful but eight minutes!! That’s not me. Indie podcasts tend to keep the focus on quality and passion."

We then asked Doug to tell us about Stories and Strategies.

"Stories and Strategies is a podcast agency. We’re a team of two full time with five others who are part time with us. We help independent podcasts, which can be individuals with an idea or large corporations with an idea of their own, conceptualize, plan and launch their podcasts. We produce each episode and provide analytics support to measure against a client’s KPIs. We produce both audio podcasts and video versions of podcasts. I guess there are three things that really make us different. First we really behave like a partner to the podcaster, not just a producer. Second, we go deeply into analytics with each podcast. Third, we’re able to work with hour client hosts to help them refine their skills."

Goug knows full well how challenging it is to be an independent podcaster.

"There’s just no getting around the fact podcasts are time consuming to produce unless you have someone doing all that stuff for you."

Doug notes: "Another challenging aspect is discovery and growth. Larger, network-level podcasts don’t face this issue quite the same. They don’t have limitless budgets but they do have budgets… most indies don’t. So there are lots of indie podcasts out there that are great shows but nobody knows them because they can’t spend the money to get it in front of people."

Since Doug is Canadian, it's natural for us to ask how has the podcasting industry grown so rapidly in Canada?

Doug answers: About one in four people already have a podcast habit and even if they don’t, they know someone who does. I don’t have to sell the idea. I’m actually based out west in Canada’s rocky mountains. Not to say people don’t listen to podcasts in western Canada, they do, but the conversation is different. I DO have to explain podcasts are mainstream."
 
Doug also explains how is Canadian podcasting different from that of U.S. & U.K. podcasters.
"
At the network level, more podcasts will focus on national storytelling and uniquely Canadian issues like Indigenous rights, multiculturalism, and rural experiences. American networks seem more likely to try to cater to larger, more segmented audiences and emphasize mainstream, entertainment-driven content. They frequently tackle polarizing or sensational topics to capture broader interest. British podcasts often draw from that country’s rich history of radio broadcasting, offering polished content with a focus on humor, literature or global issues."

Doug explains to us that Canadian podcasting is influenced by the nation's media regulations such as promoting Canadian content (called CanCon). Public broadcasters like the CBC play a significant role in shaping podcasting trends.

Then we turn to the the role of a podcast producer, and Doug has a lot to say about that topic.

"See I think the podcast producer is second only to the host of the show, and I can make the argument the success of the host depends on the producer. To me a podcast producer helps conceptualize each episode, books the guests, helps map out the episode, makes sure the host is in the right frame of mind, edits the episode, writes all the show notes with hyperlinks, gets it onto the apps, produces the promo materials, then follows up with the guests the day its published and supplies them with plenty of links and materials to help promote. We then go further with the analytics reports and our recommendations for both paid and earned media to help grow the show. I think that’s what a podcast producer does."

We asked Doug if he was worried about the spreading dominance of large podcast networks and their ability to nudge indies out of podcasting?

Doug answered, "Yes and No. First, media consolidation is a familiar story. We’ve seen that with traditional media and we’ve seen how that has evolved. Right now about 90% of podcast listening is happening across about 10% of podcasts. The big, network-level podcasts have typically sounded better, flowed better, looked better, and continue to be promoted substantially better. That’s a winning formula for the 10%. But as someone who works with lots of independent podcasts, including doing analytics reports for podcasts we don’t produce, I can tell you firsthand these indies are sounding better now, they’re looking better, and I find the content itself more compelling because it’s not trying to be everything to everyone – it’s niche."

Doug offers this feedback on some indie podcasts: "The one thing indies can still do better is episode flow. Some of the indie hosts I work with have amazing ideas, very creative, but they don’t know how to make their ideas flow in an episode. Things get lost and confused. This is where my background both in broadcasting and in presentation coaching helps. Network shows do typically have a nice flow to them, they’re just too often formulaic."

Doug continues:  "I see the evolution of podcasting will be in indie podcasting will continue to get better and better. That will draw a higher percentage of listeners. Better content and fewer ads – yes please. The network podcasts will still have substantially higher budgets to promote and produce but those budgets will be cut back as listenership slowly diversifies."

 We asked Doug that when he's not working in podcasting, how does he enjoy life with his family?

Doug says: "My wife and three kids and I live in Canada’s Rocky Mountains so we see this idyllic mountain scene every day. I try to get to the mountains (skiing or hiking) a few times a year but it’s amazing how you take something for granted when you see it every day. In the summer I’m a baseball umpire usually working games for 13 – 18 year old kids who are trying to get to college level. I’m big advocate for fitness and nutrition so in the winter I’m pretty fixated on my workout routine and I allow myself to slip a little in the summer." 

Doug Downs is the president of Stories and Strategies, a podcast growth agency. Doug specializes in podcast development, analytics, and marketing. His experience includes award-winning radio and TV journalism, leading communications strategies for corporations on multi-billion dollar projects, and media & presentation coaching with executives, politicians, Olympic athletes, and Ted Talk presenters. 

Doug's team is comprised of seasoned professionals in audio and video production, strategic communications and marketing planning, as well as presentation training. 

We asked Doug what he thought  were indie podcasting’s two primary challenges?

Doug answered: "I’ll answer from my perspective as an indie podcast producer and not for the industry as a whole.

"First, indie podcasters must create a solid show concept. It still has to be a good show. No amount of marketing is going to lead to a successful show on a sustained basis if the show isn’t good. Second, podcast discoverability is an ongoing issue. Indie podcasters don’t have the budget to compete with the big networks so they’re left doing things like promo swaps and trying to earn placement on 'Top Podcasts in this Niche' lists which is a lot of work."