I must admit that the Australian podcast Grave Matters: a lively look at death has discovered a niche that is not flooded with thousands of similar podcasts covering the same or similar topic.
Instead, podcasters -- network and indie -- seem to steer away of discussions of death. You know -- The Grim Reaper, the dirt nap, kicking the bucket, biting the dust, buying the farm, and, of course, eternal sleep.
Why cover this unique subject matter?
The co-hosts Anthony Levin and Nadine J. Cohen respond: "As the grandchildren of Holocaust survivors, death has been a constant in both our lives, almost since birth. It is a subject that has, in many ways, defined our long-term friendship, whether comforting each other over lost loved ones or coming up in existential, philosophical, or spiritual discussions.
"We are comfortable with death, and we want to show people that there’s great benefit, even joy, in talking openly about death and in exploring death-related innovations and the people working at the coalface. Nadine had wanted to do a podcast exploring this very broad topic for a long time, and Anthony jumped on board before she started pitching it to networks."
"We are comfortable with death, and we want to show people that there’s great benefit, even joy, in talking openly about death and in exploring death-related innovations and the people working at the coalface. Nadine had wanted to do a podcast exploring this very broad topic for a long time, and Anthony jumped on board before she started pitching it to networks."
The co-hosts are Anthony Levin, who is an award-winning writer, broadcaster and human rights lawyer with nearly two decades of multimedia experience. His writing has appeared in journals, books and print media including Men’s Style, The Punch (News Corp), VIVA Magazine and Prospect Magazine (UK). He is also a skilled public speaker and moderator with a decade of experience facilitating public discussions, and in 2024, he was a Finalist for Government Lawyer of the Year. Anthony has acted in and written comedy for stage, film and TV, and has also been featured on TV & radio programs such as ABC Breakfast with Fran Kelly, Science Friction with Natasha Mitchell, and ABC’s Compass program Faith & Funerals. Grave Matters is his first foray into podcasts.
Nadine J. Cohen is a Sydney-based writer across media, screen and literature, with bylines in The Guardian, The Saturday Paper, SMH/Age, ABC, Harper's Bazaar, and more. Her debut novel, Everyone and Everything, was released to critical acclaim in 2023, and Cohen is also a passionate independent advocate for refugees affected by Australia's offshore detention program.
Nadine and Anthony share: "While we’d both been a guest on other podcasts, neither of us had podcast of us had hosting experience before embarking on this journey."
Ear Worthy is nominating Anthony Levin and Nadine J. Cohen to be Podcast Host Co-Rookies of the Year.
The podcast began in March 2024 and ended its season in May. Presumably, a new season will be released later this year. If not, I will be lodging an official protest with the Australian authorities.
The Good Grief episode on March 12th was one of my favorites because a psychologist and grief counselor discussed rituals around the world to deal with grief, and how we can develop our own personal grief rituals. In the episode, co-host Nadine Cohen discusses keeping relics from loved ones who have passed, like, in her case, an ugly coffee mug from her late mother. Then psychologist Dr. Paul Martin talks about public rituals about death, citing the
Japanese three-day festival of Obon, or Bon, is a Buddhist holiday that honors ancestors and the dead. It involves cleaning graves, making offerings, and lighting lanterns.
The March 26th episode -- Hospitals and Hijabs -- welcomed Miriam Ardati as a guest. Ardati, who guested while taking care of her newborn, is a death doula, funeral director, and death educator. Her description of Muslim death practices was enlightening. She emphasized the importance of getting prepared.
The Good Grief episode on March 12th was one of my favorites because a psychologist and grief counselor discussed rituals around the world to deal with grief, and how we can develop our own personal grief rituals. In the episode, co-host Nadine Cohen discusses keeping relics from loved ones who have passed, like, in her case, an ugly coffee mug from her late mother. Then psychologist Dr. Paul Martin talks about public rituals about death, citing the
Japanese three-day festival of Obon, or Bon, is a Buddhist holiday that honors ancestors and the dead. It involves cleaning graves, making offerings, and lighting lanterns. The March 26th episode -- Hospitals and Hijabs -- welcomed Miriam Ardati as a guest. Ardati, who guested while taking care of her newborn, is a death doula, funeral director, and death educator. Her description of Muslim death practices was enlightening. She emphasized the importance of getting prepared.
The May 14th episode -- Saying Furr-well -- discussed how the death of our pets is just as impactful as the death of human loved ones. The two guests discuss palliative care for dying pets, and how human owners can, and should, take the time to learn what pain means to a sick pet and how they can help them.
As the episode emphasizes, people often underestimate the grief that flows from the death of a pet -- dog, cat, hamster, horses, and birds.
The show itself is neatly crafted and formatted. For example, each episode begins with teaser clips, then intro music, and then the show. That format captures listeners' attention right away and frames the episode for listeners.
As the episode emphasizes, people often underestimate the grief that flows from the death of a pet -- dog, cat, hamster, horses, and birds.
The show itself is neatly crafted and formatted. For example, each episode begins with teaser clips, then intro music, and then the show. That format captures listeners' attention right away and frames the episode for listeners.
The co-hosts also offer a content warning at the start of each episode that death will be discussed. That seems prudent and appropriate.
Why did SBS Audio commission this show? SBS Audio Podcast & Digital Audio Manager Joel Supple answers: "At SBS Audio, we’re interested in hearing under recognized perspectives on all matter of things, including that one certainty in all our lives – death. We were keen to bring Nadine and Anthony’s warmth and curiosity to conversations with people from different cultures, religions, and traditions to demystify our relationship to death and its rituals."
When we asked the co-hosts about the tenor of audience feedback, they explained: "Audience feedback has been consistently positive and appreciative to hearing death and death rituals spoken about so openly and expansively."
Joel Supple expands on that point. "Nadine and Anthony seem to have tapped into a latent desire in people to have frank, smart, and surprisingly funny conversations about the death industry. The podcast seems to have really resonated with a desire to create more meaningful and personalized ceremonies for the grieving, and to find alternatives to outdated models of disposal that work better for the environment."
Joel Supple expands on that point. "Nadine and Anthony seem to have tapped into a latent desire in people to have frank, smart, and surprisingly funny conversations about the death industry. The podcast seems to have really resonated with a desire to create more meaningful and personalized ceremonies for the grieving, and to find alternatives to outdated models of disposal that work better for the environment."
We asked if there are any rules on how to handle discussions on death. Are there things you will not cover?
Nadine Cohen responded: "There
are no rules, per se, but we are hyper-aware that our use of humor is
not necessarily appropriate when discussing certain topics and
anecdotes, with and without guests. The only things we avoid covering
are topics that we feel have been done to death (sorry)."
Even Joel has been affected by the podcast, admitting, "On a personal level - I now have a new desire to turned back to liquid and released to the sea when it’s my time!"
After I die, I would like an indie podcast attempt to contact me on "the other side." I'll make plans to be buried with a Shure MV7+ Podcast Dynamic Microphone with a stand. After all, great audio is always important.
Check out Grave Matters and encounter the ways in which we can better prepare for our death and for the death of loved ones.
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