The journey of Famous & Gravy is the dream of many indie podcasters. Of course, the problem in 2025 remains that podcast networks seem to want to barricade themselves against the indie podcasters, hoping to dominate the industry with cookie-cutter true-crime shows, comedy podcasts where people compete for yuks, and celebrity vanity projects that leverage their name recognition to push aside more creative, more substantial, and more informative independent podcasts.
All credit, however, to Famous & Gravy. The show deserves to be under the big top because it's a terrific show.
In the trailer, the co-hosts introduce themselves -- Michael Osborne and Amit Kapoor -- and then ask and answer three questions about dead celebrities. We learn that Betty White dreamed of being a forest ranger, comedian Norm Macdonald devoured Tolstoy novels, and writer Maya Angelou suffered from mutism, once for four years.
And that was just in the trailer! The co-hosts explain the show: "We usually know famous people for one big thing, but there's more to the story. That's what Famous & Gravy is all about. A completely different angle on famous lives from modern history."
The co-hosts tell us: "We turn biographies inside out, throwing out chronology, sequencing by topics of interest, and leaving out the boring parts. Famous & Gravy is the show where we look at the holistic life of a famous person, beyond only what they’re known for, and discuss the non-obvious ways they contributed and connected, and went through points of inflection and flow. We look at their historical imprints, both cultural and personal, tiny and large, to give you a brand-new perspective and perhaps change what you thought you knew about them. Even if you have barely heard of the icon we biographize, you’ll get a fresh insight into modern history and a different way to appreciate a life story. You’ll also become pretty excellent at dinner parties."
Given the high bar set by the show, you'd expect a letdown. The co-hosts, however, deliver brilliantly.
Here are the self-imposed restrictions: "The
person needs to have died more than a year ago, but in the 21st century
(after the year 2000). More than one year to allow space for grief, to
bypass immediate media influence, and mainly to pay respect. We cap it
at the 21st century because we want our memories of this person to be
fresh enough to add a personal layer, and the recent nostalgia makes it
much more fun. We are otherwise not limited in the nature of celebrity
or background."
"We don’t love the idea of celebrity, nor would we really desire fame. However, famous people have given us the gift of public visibility, which comes with it life documentation in the form of books, articles, videos, and second-hand accounts - on top of our own memories of these people. With all of these sources, we now get a new comprehensive view of 'regular people with famous jobs', allowing us to integrate overlooked characteristics and appreciate them with a similar degree of discussion that we would apply to a favorite literary protagonist. So on each episode, through a lively segment-based conversation about a famous person who died in recent years, we give you a new way to view a life in a fuller and more fun way."
Famous & Gravy is created and hosted by Michael Osborne and Amit Kapoor, close friends and back patio academics who are not what they once thought they were.
Michael (earth scientist turned producer
and storyteller) and Amit (media business person and also a comic) both
have Ivy League graduate degrees that they prefer to now use deep
diving into history, pop culture, and the human spirit.
I can't say enough about the skill and chemistry of these two men. Their high-concept premise is unique, stimulating, and acts as a cultural crystal ball, from which we see ourselves through the famous subjects of the show. Here's what I admire about these two men. First, they're smart, perceptive, intellectually curious, and are comfortable in incongruity and nuance.
Second, they don't always agree, especially the rating system they imposed on the famous person's obituary, but they talk through niggly discord and either compromise or, at times, change their position. Frankly, it's refreshing.
Third, the serrated wit of the co-hosts is evident, yet they resist the temptation to try to be funny for the sake of getting a laugh, and instead allow the conversation to organically generate the banter.
In an online conversation with Michael Osborne, he told me: "On every episode we choose a dead celebrity, and we ask, "Would you want that life?" Our episode gallery will give you a sense of our range."
And he's right. The episodes I'd recommend include Harold Ramis, Julia Child, and Fred Rogers. Some of my favorites include comedian George Carlin, Paul Newman, Shirley Temple, and Zsa Zsa Gabor, who is intriguing because to baby Boomers, Gabor was a proto Paris Hilton or Kim Kardashian and is completely unknown to present generations.
What I enjoy about the format is that the co-hosts have built a matrix for the episodes and for the celebrities. Unlike many other like-minded podcasts, the co-hosts do not just ramble about the celebrity until they either run out of things to say or veer off-topic to kill time until their programmatic ads run.
On Famous & Gravy there are rules. First, they rate the obituary on a 10-point scale. Actually, even before that, they ask people if they can identify the celebrity by reading obscure parts of their life. For example, in the Harold Ramis episode, the co-hosts told us that he once worked at Playboy magazine as the Jokes Editor. It's a fun way to begin the show. I enjoy the dissection of the obituary because, due to their brevity, a celebrity's essence is boiled down to a few sentences.
Then they discuss five things that offer a different angle on the celebrity. For example, in the George Carlin episode, Amit tells listeners that the comedian was the first person to host Saturday Night Live 50 years ago.
In category three, the co-hosts choose one word or phrase that characterizes the celebrity's loving relationships. In category four, the co-hosts estimate the net worth of the celebrity they are profiling. In the shows I listened to, they've been very close and also so far off that the discussion of their guesses is both fun and fascinating.
Category five is the "Little Lebowski Urban Achievers" award which shows a different side to the celebrity.
I find these artificial categories helpful because they build a foundation for the discussion. Finally, Michael Osborne and Amit Kapoor refuse to offer listeners a superficial understanding of the celebrity. For them, the celebrity they've spotlighted in an episode deserves the insight and forethought they provide to assess that person as a cipher for the culture of their time and how they are viewed with the benefit of time since they've passed.
I like the choices they make for celebrities, from the buttoned-up smugness of James Lipton to the undervalued skill of actor Alan Rickman. I like that the podcast doesn't exploit the most famous people, just the most interesting ones.
Famous & Gravy is one of the best podcasts out there. Wondery may be a lot of things, but the company is not stupid. They know they've caught lightning in a bottle here. It's often reported that podcast listeners are a bright, insightful group, and I believe that's accurate. In that case, podcast fans have found that the co-hosts -- Michael Osborne and Amit Kapoor -- can meet and exceed their expectations.
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