A Matter Of Degrees Podcast Co-Hosts Discuss Climate Survival

 The co-hosts of the A Matter Of Degrees podcast begin their season three episode with a "Welcome back, climate-curious friends. This season, we'll tackle some critical topics and big questions, starting with one we're all asking when it comes to the climate crisis: What can I do?"

So the first three episodes of the season are a miniseries about what we can all do personally, professionally, and politically.

The co-hosts of this excellent podcast are not simply climate advocates, they're scientists. 

So they're not tree huggers, but highly skilled women of science who can take on any climate denier who produces a snowball to prove the earth is not warming to dangerous levels.

Dr. Leah Stokes is a specialist in energy and climate policy, and the author of the award-winning book Short Circuiting Policy, which examines the role of utilities in undermining regulation and promoting climate denial. Trained at M.I.T., Columbia, and the University of Toronto, Leah has published in top scholarly journals and popular media outlets. Named a 2020 Grist 50 Fixer, she regularly provides advice to policymakers at the federal and state levels and has given testimony on clean energy and electrification to the U.S. Congress, as well as states and cities. 

At the University of California, Santa Barbara, Leah is the Anton Vonk Associate Professor of Environmental Politics. She’s also a senior policy consultant at the advocacy groups Evergreen Action and Rewiring America. Her deep research shows electrification can cut 75% of carbon emissions while saving lives, strengthening the economy, increasing grid resilience, and reducing the burden of costly weather-related disasters. Leah is an avid gardener.

Dr. Katharine Wilkinson is an author, strategist, teacher, and one of 15 “women who will save the world,” according to Time magazine. She is co-founder and executive director of The All We Can Save Project, which works to grow climate leadership, and creator of All We Can Save Circles and Climate Wayfinding. Her books on climate include the bestselling anthology All We Can Save, The Drawdown Review, the New York Times bestseller Drawdown, and Between God & Green. 

Previously, Katharine was the principal writer and editor-in-chief at the climate solutions nonprofit Project Drawdown. She speaks widely, at forums including National Geographic, TEDWomen, and the United Nations. A former Rhodes Scholar and frequent visiting professor, Katharine holds a doctorate in geography and environment from Oxford and a BA in religion from Sewanee. She is a homegrown Atlantan, happiest on a mountain or a horse.

Stokes and Wilkinson have just started their third season of A Matter Of Degrees.  Check out some of their previous episodes such as season two, episode eight The ‘Win-Win-Win’ Strategy To Retire Coal, and season two episode four 'Green Jobs...For All?'

Dr. Stokes and Dr. Wilkinson were kind enough to sit down with us to discuss their podcast and, of course, climate change. 

A Matter Of Degrees Q&A

Q. Dr. Stokes, Dr. Wilkinson, how did the two of you meet? How did that meeting result in the birth of this podcast, A Matter Of Degrees?

A. To tell the truth, the first time we met, we didn’t click. Both of us were attending a spiffy climate advocacy event and probably in “meh” moods, and we left feeling pretty indifferent to each other. But we really bonded later, over Zoom. And a beautiful long-distance friendship bloomed, which eventually bore the fruit that is A Matter of Degrees.

Q. Thirty years ago, when Al Gore was one of the first politicians of note to discuss the climate crisis, his forecast was viewed as another progressive unnecessarily hitting the panic button. We’ve come a long way since then, but there is still a formidable political contingent that discounts climate change. How do you both deal with ongoing denialism?

A. The good news is that the climate majority is real and growing. In the US, only 9% of people actively dismiss the reality of climate change, and we know that has more to do with identity and politics than science. So, that’s not the best place to focus our public engagement; we keep our eyes (and airwaves) focused on the “climate curious.” When it comes to organized climate denial, we work to call it out and get it shut down! Leah just released a journal article and a report co-authored with Sierra Club on climate disinformation. It’s clear that the decades-long climate disinformation campaigns by fossil fuel companies, electric utilities, and their trade associations have undermined climate science. If we name and shame, to the press and to our policymakers, that creates real pressure for change. And we’ve addressed it on the show, too. Last season we did a whole episode on how the gas industry is fighting against clean energy and electrification by setting up front groups, what’s called “astroturfing.” The goal is to tell powerful stories that both reveal great ideas and expose lies – and in doing so, change hearts and minds and spark action.

Q. How did you connect with the Gimlet podcast How To Save A Planet about coal-fired power plants and their dangers to the environment and climate? How about the December 22, 2021, episode introducing that show? Usually, competitors in a podcast genre do not spotlight their rivals!

A. To the contrary, we’ve found that podcasting at its core is super collaborative. Leah and Alex Blumberg bonded over weird financial facts and how to make them accessible to people who want to understand how to shut down coal plants. So many powerful stories are just waiting to be told, and it’s a win-win to swap stories and share platforms with our friends. That’s what Katharine’s organization, The All We Can Save Project, is all about – creating a more leaderful climate community. Also, we’re so sad that Spotify canceled How To Save a Planet – that team is so talented and produced top-tier climate reporting. 

Q. One of my favorite episodes is an early one in October 2020 about climate guilt. I found that episode fascinating. Climate guilt makes people feel hopeless and confused about what we actually can do. How important was it for both of you to assist people with the right way to think about the role they each have in addressing the climate crisis? 

A. That episode is our bread and butter. We’re focused not just on how people think, but also on how they feel. To take meaningful action on climate change, we need to reckon with our emotions – guilt, fear, anger, whatever they may be. Stay tuned for an episode from our third season on that topic. And in terms of our role, the fossil fuel industry has spent tons of money trying to place the blame on individuals. The truth is, buying a bamboo toothbrush is not going to get us where we need to be. Even though we support bamboo toothbrushes! But we think it’s most important to work for policy and political progress. Let’s focus on collectively achieving structural change.

Q. How do you think people should view and act when assessing individual actions versus structural change concerning climate change?

A. An excellent question, and one we get asked all the time. So often, in fact, that we decided to tackle it in a three-part miniseries at the start of our new season that answers the question “What Can I Do?” We think it’s entirely possible – and necessary – to make structural changes at the individual level, and we break down ideas from three angles: the personal, the professional, and the political. Give our miniseries a listen for all the juicy details!

Q. How did you connect with Frqncy Media, your partner, in the production of the podcast? What have you learned about podcasting after two seasons and a third just being released?

A. A dear friend of the pod introduced us to Michelle Khouri, FRQNCY’s founder and CEO, and we got on like a house on fire (maybe a metaphor we need to revisit in an era of climate crisis!). We love their client-centric approach. Perhaps the lesson we keep learning is just how much work goes into a narrative podcast that integrates multiple voices in each episode — and how powerful that makes the show. Ensuring space and capacity to do all of it well is vital.

Q. Season three just started on September 15. What should listeners expect from this new season?

A. We already mentioned that we’re kicking off season three with our first-ever miniseries. And that’s just the beginning! Our episodes are going to cover a wide array of climate topics. To name just a few, we’ll talk about the vital forest ecosystem of Southeast Alaska, and how Indigenous and conservation communities are co-creating a way forward for the forest. And we’ll expose how fossil fuel companies are using petrochemicals – the building blocks of pesticides and plastics – as a lifeline for their business, sacrificing the health of nearby communities in places like Houston and the Ohio River Valley. 

Q. If most of the world sits on its hands, what will our world be like in 2050? 2080? 

A. The science is exceedingly clear. Under the IPCC’s worst case scenario, where people do very little to mitigate emissions, we could be looking at four degrees or more of warming, on average, around the world. That will bring unprecedented heat waves, severe drought, major floods, and sea level rise. We’d see a sharp rise in migration, conflict, and food insecurity. To put it bluntly, most people will suffer and many will die. And the distribution of suffering will not be equally distributed. 

These are both future and present concerns. The climate crisis is here, and we can prevent it from getting a lot worse. The goal is to recognize where pieces of a clean, livable future exist in the present, and fight as hard as we can to let them flourish and grow. This is the work of our lifetimes.

Q. Finally, when climate change causes wet bulb temperatures, cataclysmic weather events, and shortages of water and food, can you let me know the location of the secret underground bunker where you are hiding out? Can I stay there?

A. Hah! If it comes to that, you might want to call up Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. We’ll be in the trenches, continuing to work towards all we can save – not in spaceships or secret bunkers.

 

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 I believe it's a positive sign that climate change podcasts have proliferated in the last few years. That means people are taking climate change seriously and want more information.

 

Eleanor Roosevelt once said that, “The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams.” Dr. Leah Stokes and Dr. Katharine Wilkinson dream of a future when we can be environmentally responsible and responsive and make the only world we have habitable and hospitable for generations in the future. 

Check out A Matter Of Degrees. 

 

 

 

 

Dr. Katharine Wilkinson

 

Dr. Leah Stokes